Rape flowchart.

[Nepene]

You're no longer saying anything I disagree with, so sure.

[vvn]

1) That's not an assumption; that's free participation.
2) If there's coercion, there's coercion; B should be held responsible for coercing others. A doctor found coercing their patients, even accidentally, would be subjected to reprimand, regardless of patient interest.
3) That's not an assumption; that's free participation.
The only actual assumption would be found in the 4th scenario.

I am sorry I was not clear. I was trying to generate situations where you landed on the last flowchart question, and for that purpose defining assumption as the lack of specific vocal approval. And your answers seem to validate the flowchart, which is what I was trying to test.

In #2 I specified that B did not know the coercion was taking place. Person or group C is coercing A into having sex with B. This could be anything from peer pressure to blackmail. But, B just thinks A is interested in sex. This might be a situation where the rapist and the person having sex are not the same. I think a case could be made that C raped A, and B was an innocent.

[RyukaTana]

In #2 I specified that B did not know the coercion was taking place. Person or group C is coercing A into having sex with B. This could be anything from peer pressure to blackmail. But, B just thinks A is interested in sex. This might be a situation where the rapist and the person having sex are not the same. I think a case could be made that C raped A, and B was an innocent.

As far as things go, I'd say it's entirely acceptable to say that B raped A, but B is still innocent. I can understand that it would be true if you define rape as 'forcing someone to have sex against their will', but I think the more common definition would be 'having sex with someone without their consent'. By the latter definition, B is a rapist, even if C is the one doing the coercing.

I have no problem with either definition, nor am I bothered by saying 'B raped A, but B is innocent'. Circumstance is far more important to me than wording. Unfortunately, that's not true for everyone. Too many people are far more concerned with the pretense, the way things seem, rather than actually having evidence.

[crayzz]

In #2 I specified that B did not know the coercion was taking place. Person or group C is coercing A into having sex with B. This could be anything from peer pressure to blackmail. But, B just thinks A is interested in sex. This might be a situation where the rapist and the person having sex are not the same. I think a case could be made that C raped A, and B was an innocent.

I think the question here is who is responsible for the coercion. In your initial formulation, it seemed like B was responsible. For that, I'd be willing to add a charge similar to manslaughter, where it's accepted that it wasn't intentional, but one is still held responsible.

If B is not the one responsible for the coercion, and if B doesn't know about it, then yeah, B isn't the rapist. But it is still rape, just that a third party is to blame. The flowchart assumes only 2 actors, so it doesn't address this case properly.

[vvn]

I think the question here is who is responsible for the coercion. In your initial formulation, it seemed like B was responsible. For that, I'd be willing to add a charge similar to manslaughter, where it's accepted that it wasn't intentional, but one is still held responsible.

My fault then. I was attempting to formulate a situation where B was totally unaware of the third party coercion. Thus fulfilling the case where B is unaware that A does not want to have sex.
I think there is a good case for tiers of rape, as is done with murder. Not calling it rape, as has been suggested by others, might be a step in the right direction.

If B is not the one responsible for the coercion, and if B doesn't know about it, then yeah, B isn't the rapist. But it is still rape, just that a third party is to blame. The flowchart assumes only 2 actors, so it doesn't address this case properly.

True.
From a legal standpoint, I wonder what crime is being committed here. Obviously if the coercion is blackmail or some such, that is a crime. But, more specifically pertaining to the involuntary sex. I would bet it isn't rape.

This has been an interesting discussion, thanks luislsacc for starting it.