766: Decisive

[liokae]

I dunno... Max has demonstrated a pretty clear pattern of being unable to grasp the idea of active consent.

[crayzz]

Besides, her reasoning that no one is right to be scared because she wants to give them something, is faulty.

It's not just faulty, it's scary. Someone doing something against your wishes while refusing to accept that their behaviour could possibly be harmful is the source of many abusive relationships (e.g. Nice Lady Therapists).

[MitchellTF]

OKay, Max's problem is she has a SERIOUS issue, that's caused by an overfocus on her one, specific ulitarianeseque mindset.


She believes, firmly, completely, and utterly, that EVERYONE ELSE SHARES HER VIEWPOINT. And that anyone who doesn't share her viewpoint is...just missing out, and needs to be corrected.

The problem is, in doing this...SHE IS HURTING THEM. Which, goes against her own moral code. And she doesn't realize it. Which is bad.

[Nepene]

OKay, Max's problem is she has a SERIOUS issue, that's caused by an overfocus on her one, specific ulitarianeseque mindset.


She believes, firmly, completely, and utterly, that EVERYONE ELSE SHARES HER VIEWPOINT. And that anyone who doesn't share her viewpoint is...just missing out, and needs to be corrected.

The problem is, in doing this...SHE IS HURTING THEM. Which, goes against her own moral code. And she doesn't realize it. Which is bad.

Yeah. So she supports corrective rape to fix those like Trent who have an attitude she disapproves of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_rape

She joins a lovely tradition.

[antipodefabricator]

Given Max's scene where she basically freaked out at the prospect that what she did might have counted as rape, and also her dialogue in the second panel of this page, I seriously doubt she condones corrective rape or any other non-consensual activity. While I'm at it..... hmm, where's Max's written ethical code? I can't seem to find it, but I'm sure there's something in there to help clarify things even more.

[Tailsteak]

You mean this?

http://leftoversoup.com/enlightenedhedonism.html

[antipodefabricator]

That! Why did I know it was gonna be Tailsteak coming here with the link? Thanks mate. : P

But yeah, read that over. Take a good look at it. Max obviously considers sex to be a pleasurable thing, but from that essay she wrote, it's obvious that she's capable of considering the points of view of other people. To say that she would ever consider corrective rape to be a valid thing to consider is to also say that she's incapable of considering a sexual act to be painful or harmful. Consider this page. Why would she deny Jamie the sexual gratification he literally asked for two pages ago? Because she understands that it wouldn't be good for him. Saying that Max would condone corrective rape is to either say that Max is incapable of understanding what is harmful to people, or that Max doesn't care what others are feeling, both of which are obviously untrue.

EDIT: There's a quote from Max's philosophy thing that's too good not to have included. "Enlightened hedonists may advocate the benefits of their worldview, but they should in no way impose these beliefs on anyone capable of dissenting, except in such cases where their beliefs result in the causing of pain to others. While an enlightened hedonist's empathy may twinge in response to another entity's self-inflicted pain, she has no right to force decisions on that party, except in such cases where said self-inflicted pain is the result of ignorance or mental impairment."

[Nepene]

Given Max's scene where she basically freaked out at the prospect that what she did might have counted as rape, and also her dialogue in the second panel of this page, I seriously doubt she condones corrective rape or any other non-consensual activity. While I'm at it..... hmm, where's Max's written ethical code? I can't seem to find it, but I'm sure there's something in there to help clarify things even more.

She doesn't see rape as a bad thing because of the non consensual element, as she notes.

http://leftoversoup.com/archive.php?num=668

When someone else notes she raped her, she complains about him using felony language, blames him for not saying anything, tells him that she loves him and she's sorry, tells him to hit her and rape her.

It reads more like she's mad because she didn't appropriately give pleasure via bottoming than anything. Her thing is giving, she didn't give pleasure right, now she has to fix it by taking some pain. She doesn't really seem to care about the actual rape thing.

So, she's not doing 'corrective rape' in her mind. She's just giving them herself to help them fix their sexuality and overcoming initial resistance. He totally wanted it. With those sexy shoulders he was asking for it. There may be elements they don't like, but she can win them around.

[antipodefabricator]

She doesn't see rape as a bad thing because of the non consensual element, as she notes.

http://leftoversoup.com/archive.php?num=668

When someone else notes she raped her, she complains about him using felony language, blames him for not saying anything, tells him that she loves him and she's sorry, tells him to hit her and rape her.

It reads more like she's mad because she didn't appropriately give pleasure via bottoming than anything. Her thing is giving, she didn't give pleasure right, now she has to fix it by taking some pain. She doesn't really seem to care about the actual rape thing.

So, she's not doing 'corrective rape' in her mind. She's just giving them herself to help them fix their sexuality and overcoming initial resistance. He totally wanted it. With those sexy shoulders he was asking for it. There may be elements they don't like, but she can win them around.

We're reading the same comic, right? Here, let me line up two quotes:

I thought we were talking about an overall consensual encounter that happened to feature a specific element that you didn't like and didn't want to happen again.

She doesn't see rape as a bad thing because of the non consensual element,

You think this is equal to that? She's not saying "who cares if there wasn't full consent?" she's saying "I thought this was generally consenting." When she realized she was wrong, note her reaction in the next panel. Or was that all fear because she thought she was going to jail? You seriously need to re-read that arc. And I need to seriously stop getting myself into these ethical/moral/political arguments. God, what's this, the tenth one this week and it's only Wednesday? Someone else take over. Preferrably Tailsteak, I doubt you guys will listen to anyone else anyway. x.x

[crayzz]

she complains about him using felony language

This is disingenuous. At no point does Max challenge the validity of the felony language: she accepts it without question. Max "complains" that she didn't realize felony language was warranted. Saying "I didn't know it was that bad" is not a complaint about language use.

It reads more like she's mad because she didn't appropriately give pleasure via bottoming than anything.

This is just nonsense. That's effectively what she believed prior to Trent using the word "rape." She says so explicitly: "I thought we were talking about, like, an overall consensual encounter that happened to feature a specific element that you didn't like and didn't want to happen again." Her reaction to believing she didn't give appropriate pleasure and to believing she raped someone are entirely different, as evident in the complete change in attitude and demeanour once things are clarified for her.

She's just giving them herself to help them fix their sexuality and overcoming initial resistance. He totally wanted it. With those sexy shoulders he was asking for it. There may be elements they don't like, but she can win them around.

You're being silly. Really, really silly.