#GamerGate

[RyukaTana]

Making the world acknowledge that there is something wrong with the fact that most gamers (a sufficiently large number of them that it makes sense to market games to them) like the idea of raping, subjugating and killing women is the first step towards the solution this problem.

I don't think that's true. Most gamers don't like that; my issue with the gaming community is the toleration of the minority that does.

See, this is a message I completely agree with, I just don't think the shotgun tactics used by the opposition are the way to do it. I'd rather ignore them than fuck over a bunch of people who didn't do anything to get at them.

[vvn]

Making the world acknowledge that there is something wrong with the fact that most gamers (a sufficiently large number of them that it makes sense to market games to them) like the idea of raping, subjugating and killing women is the first step towards the solution this problem. A problem cannot be solved without it being acknowledged as a problem.
(No one needs to make the world acknowledge that gamers like that kind of games - that is obvious by the fact that those games are bought, presumably by gamers.)

The only hard data I have on this is the gamers I personally know, and none of them like the idea of raping, subjugating and killing women. And, none of the games I have seen them play have an aspect of that in the game. I acknowledge this is a small sample size, but I think it's enough that I can reasonably doubt the claim that it is a majority of gamers. Now "a sufficiently large number of them that it makes sense to market games to them." That's not a large percentage at all. It is profitable to market to very small segments of the population. (If I could sell a game to 1% of gamers, I'd go into the game business.) I acknowledge that my impression of gamers might be wrong, but "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." So, I would have to see some numbers.

Games (and movies, and music and ...) are businesses. Their purpose is to make money, not change society. Even if the CEO's of the game companies acknowledged publicly that their customers were horrible people, it might not make them change the games they make. (Jerry Springer, for example, has publicly said many times his guests are the worst imaginable people, and the audience is warped to watch the show. But, he is happy to make money giving them what they want.) As always there are exceptions to this, but I think this is the majority. And, since I could name a number of (mostly entertainment) industries that have the same problem, I think you might be rolling a rock up a hill.

Since this effort seems doomed to me, I'd like to suggest an alternate direction in which to direct your efforts; Rap/Gangsta music and culture seems to encourage the idea of raping, subjugating and killing women. And, like the gaming industry would be hard to change. However, public schools have "Gangsta" days where they encourage students to dress up and behave like their "heroes" in the videos. Thus romanticizing the culture of gang violence, drug use, and the abuse of women. Personally I feel that when a publicly funded, educational organization with mandatory attendance acting as a proponent of a culture dedicated to blatantly illegal activities it is a much bigger problem than gamers. Specifically, because it is the place that defines the societal morals and ethics our youth are expected to grow up and follow. Also, it's all the kids, not just asshats. Also, this is something that public awareness might be able to change.

I don't think that's true. Most gamers don't like that; my issue with the gaming community is the toleration of the minority that does.

I can go along with this. From a strategy standpoint, if you really want to make the point that these people are intolerable, the first people you need to get on board is...women. If women stopped going out with anyone that behaved intolerably (in gaming, or anything else) guys would change their minds. Politeness and chivalry used to be important in this regard. If women are happy to date these guys, I am back to rock and hill.

[crayzz]

From a strategy standpoint, if you really want to make the point that these people are intolerable, the first people you need to get on board is...women. If women stopped going out with anyone that behaved intolerably (in gaming, or anything else) guys would change their minds.

Are you not aware of the MGTOW and Incel communities? Both are characterized by not spending time with women; both are notoriously misogynistic (they don't do much better on the misandry front either). I don't think it's up to women, and quite frankly I don't want to pin responsibility for dealing with rapey guys on women. It's up to one's peers. If your social group won't put up with your shit, then you've nowhere to fling it but elsewhere. If most social groups won't put up with it, then you've either the option of ostracising yourself (unideal) or knocking it off (ideal).

[Imrix]

Are you not aware of the MGTOW and Incel communities?

No, no I am not. Who the hell are they, and why should I give a shit?

[crayzz]

MGTOW refers to Men Going Their Own Way: basically, men who hate women so much they don't want to date them anymore. The singular is MGHOW for Man Going His Own Way. Think of the rhetoric about how women are all conniving bitches who suck the life out of men, take it to its logical conclusion, and you'll have the ideological basis.

Incels are Involuntary Celibate men. Elliot Rogers was an extreme case. It's mostly men bitter and hateful because women won't have sex with them. Amusingly, they tend to hate PUAs (pick up artists); Incels view PUAs as snake oil salesmen.

Both tend to somewhat overlap with the less savoury portion of the MRA (men's rights activist) camp.

I give about as much of a shit about them as I do about Stormfront (which, if you don't know about them either, is a notorious white supremacist forum).

[Nepene]

While I'm aware of some reasonably strong links between the MGTOW movement and the mainstream men's rights movement-

http://ncfm.org/wp-content/uploads/2014 ... ions-4.pdf

http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-poli ... w-central/

http://pjmedia.com/drhelen/2013/12/18/m ... ing-ghost/

And I am aware that there are some love hate relationships between certain aspects of the movement and PUA.

http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/08/15 ... s-problem/

And that there's a hate hate relationship between incels and MGTOW. Ban on sight.

http://www.mgtowhq.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2690

https://survivingincel.wordpress.com/tag/mgtow/

Could you say where incels overlap with the MRA camp? From what I was aware of online, they mostly utterly detest it.

PUAhate in particular often had threads about how much MRA sucked.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comm ... _how_they/

And men's rights activists often say how much they are against incel stuff.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comm ... ns_rights/

[Tem]

I don't think that's true. Most gamers don't like that; my issue with the gaming community is the toleration of the minority that does.

I can go along with this. From a strategy standpoint, if you really want to make the point that these people are intolerable, the first people you need to get on board is...women. If women stopped going out with anyone that behaved intolerably (in gaming, or anything else) guys would change their minds. Politeness and chivalry used to be important in this regard. If women are happy to date these guys, I am back to rock and hill.

You know that women are raped and killed for refusing to date assholes, do you? And then the "nice guys" say things like "It wouldn't have killed her to say yes, the poor guy was lonely" and other such nonsense.

You cannot place the burding for ending oppression on the oppressed. That is nonsensical. Also, as crayzz pointed out, most woman are already not dating those guys. That just cases those men to complain about how no woman wants to date them - they will not make the connection that they can't get a date because they're misogynist assholes, they just hate women even more.